Episode 53: Oswald In Mexico City (Part 1)
The goal of this season 2 of Solving JFK is to answer the question: Who was Lee Harvey Oswald? In search of that answer, we’ve looked at Oswald’s childhood, his service in the Marines, his years in the Soviet Union, his return to Dallas in 1962, and most recently, his time in New Orleans in the Summer of 1963.
When it comes to Oswald and Mexico City, the big questions are: Did Oswald even go to Mexico City? If so, why did he do that? If not, then why was the Mexico City story created?
The Warren Report alleges that after Oswald left New Orleans, there was a period of about one week where he was in Mexico City meeting with officials from the Cuban and Soviet governments. In this episode, we cover Oswald’s alleged path from New Orleans to Mexico City, what Oswald is said to have done while he was in Mexico City, and the story of Sylvia Odio – who says that she saw Oswald at her house in Irving, Texas at the same time that the Warren Report says Oswald was in Mexico City.
New Orleans to Mexico City
On Monday, September 23rd, 1963, Ruth Paine brought an eight months pregnant Marina Oswald and her two year old daughter June, from New Orleans back to Irving. Ruth had arrived in New Orleans the previous Friday and stayed over the weekend with the Oswalds in their tiny Magazine Street duplex.[1] Marina was due to give birth to her second child in the coming weeks. So, Ruth picked up Marina and June to stay at her house so that Ruth could be helpful to her.[2]
The Warren Report says that Oswald departed from New Orleans around Noon on Wednesday, September 25th and arrived in Mexico City at about 10 a.m. on Friday, September 27th.[3] Oswald cashed an unemployment check at Winn Dixie in New Orleans on Wednesday the 25th. The Winn Dixie’s opening time was 8am. So, the earliest possible time Oswald could have left New Orleans would be after cashing this check.[4] [5]
Sometime on the evening of Wednesday, September 25th, someone who claimed to be Lee Oswald called the Houston home of Estelle and Horace Twiford. Horace was the national committeeman of the Socialist Labor Party for the State of Texas.[6] Oswald wanted to ask Horace how he got his address because Horace had sent him a copy of Weekly People, a Leftist newspaper (not to be confused with People magazine). But, Oswald didn’t have a chance to inquire about why he had been sent the newspaper because Horace wasn’t home. Horace’s wife, Estelle, said that the man who said he was Oswald told her that he was about to fly down to Mexico. She assumed that the call was local because it was not connected by an operator.[7]
E.P. Hammett from the Continental Trailways bus line in Houston said that Oswald bought a bus ticket from Houston to Laredo that departed at 2:35 am on Thursday, September 26th.[8] Hammett said that the man who identified himself as Oswald was wearing a brown and white pull over sweater, white dungarees, and white canvas shoes.[9] Marina Oswald told the FBI that her husband did not own any of those clothes.[10] And none of those items were found in Oswald’s possessions or at Ruth Paine’s house. But, who knows? Maybe, Oswald threw all of those articles of clothing away. Stranger things have happened.
A British couple, Meryl and Dr. John McFarland said that they met Oswald on the bus that left Houston for Mexico. Oswald told the couple he was traveling from New Orleans to Cuba via Mexico City and that he worked for the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. The couple later recognized Lee Harvey Oswald on television as the man they met on the bus.[11]
The only original document that shows that Oswald entered Mexico was the FM8 tourist card with his name on it, which would have allowed Oswald to travel in Mexico as a tourist for 15 days.[12] A stamp on the form shows admission to Nuevo Laredo, Mexico on Thursday, September 26th.
A few weeks after the assassination, Harvey Cash, provided the FBI with a list of people who entered Mexico on September 26th at the place where he was the American Consul, Nuevo Laredo. The list was provided to Cash from Mexican Customs chief, Roberto Morales. The list had the names of the British couple who said they met Oswald on the bus. But the list did not have the name of Lee Harvey Oswald![13]
On September 26th, Pamela Mumford and Patricia Winston, two friends from Australia, were on a bus traveling through America to Mexico. They both say that they met Oswald on a bus from Monterrey to Mexico City. They are sure it was Oswald because he showed them a Russian passport stamp and he said he had been in the Marines in Japan.[14]
There was also a man named John Bowen, who Mumford and Winston say was sitting next to Oswald on the bus. But, Bowen did not identify Oswald as the man who sat next to him. Bowen told the FBI that he sat next to a young man who had thin blond hair, a dark complexion, and appeared to be of Mexican or Puerto Rican decent.[15] In another interview about a week later, Bowen said that there were no other Americans on the bus and the man who sat next to him had dark brown hair.[16]
How Many Bags?
One seemingly inconsequential, but potentially important question is how many pieces of luggage did Oswald have exactly? We know that Oswald’s neighbor in New Orleans, Eric Rogers, said that he saw Oswald leave his apartment with two pieces of luggage.[17] But, there seems to be a fair amount of evidence that Oswald traveled with only one piece of luggage.
The reason it matters is that for Oswald to be documented on the bus’s baggage list, it would mean that he had an extra bag to check. If he only had one bag, he would not be on the baggage list because the bus had space to store one carry-on in the cabin.[18] On December 6, 1963, Galdino Sanchez Martines, who was a Mexican Customs Inspector and FBI informant, provided a baggage list to FBI special agent Robert Chapman. That baggage list had the name Oswalj – with a j at the end - which is pretty close to Oswald, and aside from the Mexican travel form, this baggage list with Oswalj are the primary documents that establish Oswald was in Mexico.
Patricia Mumford, one of the Australians on the bus, said that Oswald had only one medium zipper bag that he stored in the rack above him.[19] Once Oswald checked into the Hotel Comercio in Mexico City, the owner who was working when the man arrived, Guillermo Garcia Luna, said that Oswald had one medium brown bag with a zipper that was made of canvas.[20] Similarly, Luna’s assistant said that Oswald arrived with one small traveling bag. The maid, Matilde Garnica, cleaned Oswald’s room and said that he had one small, brown, zippered bag made either of canvas or imitation leather.[21]
Aside from Eric Rogers, Oswald’s neighbor who saw him leave New Orleans, there were no witnesses who saw Oswald with two bags during the trip to Mexico City. After the assassination, the Dallas Police found a blue cloth zippered bag with black handles in the Paine’s garage that was said to belong to Oswald.[22] A few weeks after the Dallas Police searched her home, Ruth Paine provided another piece of luggage to the police - an olive colored canvas bag which Paine said belonged to Oswald.[23] This bag had remnants of Continental Trailways bus stickers and a chalk mark on the side of the bag which said “9/26”.[24]
This second travel bag of Oswald’s that Paine apparently found after the police search seemed to resolve the issue of Oswald’s two bags, especially since there was evidence that the olive colored canvas bag had been to Mexico given the 9/26 chalk mark and the bus stickers. But, when Eric Rogers, Oswald’s New Orleans neighbor, was shown the two Oswald travel bags by the Warren Commission, he said that the original blue bag with black handles is the one he saw Oswald carrying. He did not recognize the olive colored canvas bag with the bus stickers provided by Ruth Paine.[25]
Other Oswald in Dallas?
We’ve covered a lot of information that makes it clear that Lee Harvey Oswald traveled from New Orleans to Mexico City. We have the Mexican tourist form, the baggage claim form (even though Oswald apparently only had one carry-on bag), and witness testimony from several people who claim to have met Oswald on the bus to Mexico City.
On the other hand, there are at least 5 witnesses who put Oswald in Dallas during the time when he is supposed to be traveling to Mexico City.
On Wednesday, September 25th, when the Warren Report says Oswald was en route from New Orleans to Houston, Mrs. Lee Dannelly, an administrator at Selective Service headquarters in Austin, Texas said that she was visited by Lee Oswald in the afternoon. Dannelly said he called himself “Harvey” Oswald and that he was trying to correct his undesirable discharge status from the marines. She specifically remembered when it wasthat she saw him because it was on a payday, Wednesday, September 25th. She was returning from the bank and met Oswald after she returned.[26] When she was shown a photo of Oswald after the assassination, Dannelly confirmed that this was the man she interacted with.[27] The reason for Oswald’s visit – clearing up his discharge from the Marines, suggests that this man was either Oswald, or someone impersonating him.
Henry McCluskey said that Oswald was at the Dallas office of the Texas Employment Commission on either Wednesday the 25th or Thursday the 26th. McCluskey then interviewed Oswald again, a week later on October 3rd. McCluskey told Warren Commission counsel Albert Jenner that Oswald’s interstate claims card from the Texas Employment Commission would verify the dates of his visit. This document exists in the Warren Commission volumes. But, it isn’t the full card. It’s a cut out of part of the card, where a large part of the card missing such that there is no information regarding the dates of Oswald’s visits to the Employment Commission.[28] It was determined by counsel Jenner that McCluskey’s claim did not need to be further investigated because Oswald was believed to be on the way to Mexico City at the time.[29]
The third person to see Oswald in Dallas when he was supposed to be in Mexico was Gladys Johnson - the owner of the rooming house at 1026 North Beckley Avenue. This building would eventually be Oswald’s place of residence. Johnson told the Warren Commission that Oswald lived at a room in the house starting on October 14. But she recalled that he had come by 3 weeks before that and was told that there were no vacancies.[30] Three weeks before October 14 would be Monday, September 23rd. Given that Oswald was still in New Orleans at that time by all accounts, if Johnson was approximately correct about the three weeks number, it would mean that Oswald visited her before he went to Mexico City. But, the Warren Report timeline says that Oswald went straight to Houston, and then Mexico City, without stopping in Dallas.
Johnson, McCluskey, and Dannelly all make the case for Oswald being in Dallas at the time when the Warren Commission says he was on his way to Mexico City.
Sylvia Odio
While Lee Harvey Oswald is supposed to be on a bus to Mexico City, there is a fourth report of Oswald being in Dallas, this time, at the home of a Cuban exile single mother who had recently fallen on hard times: Sylvia Odio.
Odio’s father, Amador Odio, had been the owner of Cuba’s largest trucking business and was once described as “the Transport Tycoon of Latin America” in Time Magazine.[31] Odio’s mom and dad were always involved in Cuban politics. At first, they were on Castro’s side. They even hosted Castro’s sister’s wedding at their sprawling resort-like estate. And Odio’s trucking company was instrumental in helping the Castro revolution to win and oust Fulgencio Batista from power.[32]
But, eventually, once Castro seized control of the government, the Odio’s came to the conclusion that Castro had betrayed the revolution. That led to them joining forces with Manolo Ray to found of one of the earliest anti-Castro groups, the MRP.[33]
Castro found out about their disloyalty to him and arrested both of Odio’s parents in October of 1961. He even seized the Odio family estate where Castro’s sister had been married years before and turned it into a women’s prison, where Sarah Odio, Silvia’s mother, was incarcerated.
Let’s get back to the alleged Oswald appearance at Sylvia Odio’s house when he is supposed to be in Mexico. On either Thursday, September 26th or Friday, September 27th, three men visited Sylvia Odio’s Irving, Texas home - Leopoldo and Angelo, who Odio said were either Cuban or Mexican, and Leon Oswald, who Odio said was the same man that she saw on television as Lee Harvey Oswald after the assassination.[34][35]
Leopoldo did most of the talking. He said that they were with JURE - the Junta Revolucionario Cubano, which was the new anti-Castro group led by Manolo Ray – Odio’s father’s old friend who co-founded the MRP. Leopoldo and his friends wanted Odio to help them write letters to raise money for JURE. They thought she may be willing to do that since her parents were previously involved with Manolo Ray and they had been put in jail by Castro. Leopoldo said they had just arrived in Dallas from New Orleans.[36] He also told her QUOTE “We wanted you to meet this American. His name is Leon Oswald.” She said they repeated his name twice.[37]
The three men then left her house. But, the next day, Leopoldo called Silvia Odio on the phone and asked her what she thought of the American. He told her that it was his idea to introduce the American into the Cuban exile underground QUOTE “because he is great, he is kind of nuts.”[38] Leopoldo then added that Oswald had been in the Marine Corps and was an excellent shot. And that Oswald said QUOTE “Cubans don’t have any guts because president Kennedy should have been assassinated after the Bay of Pigs, and some Cubans should have done that, because [President Kennedy] was the one that was holding the freedom of Cubans actually.”[39]
Odio was suspicious of these men. They said that they knew her father. But, after she wrote to her dad in prison, he responded that he did not know any of them and that she should not trust them.[40]
Odio never told the FBI about her interaction with Oswald because she was afraid the FBI would say that anti-Castro Cubans were involved in Kennedy’s assassination. But one of Odio’s friends whom she told, let the FBI know on November 29, 1963. Even though Odio testified to the Warren Commission, they did not believe her story. The Report said QUOTE “While the FBI had not yet completed its investigation into this matter, the Commission has concluded that Oswald was not at Odio’s apartment in September 1963.”[41]
After President Kennedy was killed, Silvia and her sister, Annie, saw Lee Harvey Oswald on television and recognized him as the American who visited them with Leopoldo and Angelo. She was sure that the date had to be either Thursday September 26th or Friday September 27th because she had just moved to a new apartment the following Monday. So, it had to be one of the days right before that. Since she had gone to work on the day the men arrived, it had to Thursday or Friday.[42] The dates of Odio’s move to a new apartment complex were verified as being accurate after the FBI interviewed her apartment manager.[43]
Sylvia Odio also corroborated her story by telling her psychiatrist Dr. Burton Einspruch about the incident in the course of their normal sessions. Dr. Einspruch told the FBI that Odio told him about being visited by these three men the week after it happened. Dr. Einspruch said that Odio was telling the truth.[44]
The fact that Odio was seeing a psychiatrist at all was used by some to diminish her credibility. But Odio was seeing Dr. Einspruch because of QUOTE “a situational life problem.” Specifically, when her parents were arrested, Silvia Odio was 24 years old, living with her husband and 4 young children. The next year, her husband was sent to Germany for work and deserted the family. This sudden change from being an aristocratic stay at home mom with family support to becoming a poor working mother with both parents in prison led Odio to have QUOTE “total loss of consciousness when reality got too painful to bear.”[45]
Odio’s story about seeing Oswald at her house with 2 Cubans who were promoting JURE is supported by her sister, her friend who told the FBI about it, the letter that Odio sent to her dad asking about these men in October, and her psychiatrist, Dr. Einspruch, who the Warren Commission interviewed and found to be credible.[46]
Who Were The 3 Visitors?
The Warren Commission said that three men probably did visit Odio. They just didn’t think the American could have been Lee Harvey Oswald because he was already accounted for as being on the way to Mexico City at the time. As the Warren Commission was wrapping up its final report, the FBI looked in to who these three visitors to Odio’s house could have possibly been.
The Warren Report says that FBI located Loran Hall, a man involved in anti-castro activities who QUOTE “told the FBI that in September of 1963, he was in Dallas, soliciting aid in connection with anti-Castro activities. He said he had visited Ms. Odio. He was accompanied by Lawrence Howard, a Mexican American, and William Seymour from Arizona. He stated that Seymour is similar in appearance to Lee Harvey Oswald.”[47]
Based on Loran Hall’s statement to the FBI, it looks like Odio may have been mistaken. Remember, there was a lot of specific information about Oswald that Odio reported from the interaction: he was a marine, he was a great shot, he thought Kennedy should be dead, they had just come from New Orleans. Could this really have been a case of mistaken identity after all?
Two days after they spoke to Loran Hall, the FBI interviewed William Seymour, the man Odio supposedly mistook for Oswald. Seymour denied being in Dallas with Loran Hall in September and said that he had never had contact with Silvia Odio. The FBI then confirmed that Seymour was working in Florida in September of 1963 had no record of missing work.[48] On September 23rd, 1964 – one day before the Warren Report was published, the FBI interviewed Lawrence Howard – the other man whom Loran Hall said was with him visiting Odio. Like William Seymour, Lawrence Howard denied ever having contact with Silvia Odio.[49]
The fact that his two corroborating witnesses were not supporting his story led the FBI to follow up with Loran Hall. When Hall was interviewed a second time by the FBI, Hall completely contradicted his earlier statements. He said that it wasn’t Seymour who was with him, it was someone else. And, most importantly, Hall said that he had actually never been to Silvia Odio’s house.
The FBI showed Odio photos of Hall, Seymour, and Lawrence Howard. She said that those were not the three men who visited her.[50] Later, when Loran Hall was interviewed by the HSCA, he said that he never told the FBI he met Sylvia Odio during the first interview. The FBI had completely made up the story of his response according to Hall.[51]
Assuming Odio was telling the truth (which is what the record shows in my view), what was the purpose of these three men, including Oswald, visiting her? Warren Report critics point to the fact that JURE was a Cuban-exile group that was disfavored by the CIA because it was seen as too left leaning and not capitalist enough. By linking Oswald with the Cuban exile group that the CIA didn’t like, it would make that group look like they were involved with killing Kennedy if Odio’s story had been accepted. But, instead, despite evidence to the contrary, Sylvia Odio’s testimony was found to be not credible by the Warren Commission.[52]
The big question of this episode is whether Sylvia Odio and the other 4 people who witnessed Oswald in Dallas are more credible than the two documents and the bus witness statements showing that Oswald was on the way to Mexico City. Regardless of which one of these guys is actually Lee Harvey Oswald, the fact that someone is clearly impersonating Oswald is a serious problem for the official story.
NEXT TIME ON SOLVING JFK: We look at Oswald’s alleged activities in Mexico City, including numerous visits to the Cuban and Soviet Consulate. Is there any hard proof that Oswald visited those places? And what was the point of Oswald’s alleged trip to Mexico City?
[1] Warren Report at 730.
[2] Id.
[3] Id. at 301.
[4] John Armstrong, Harvey & Lee, at 606.
[5] CD 1553, p4-5, FBI interview of Mr. E. A. Reimherr by SA Stephen Callender, 9/9/64.
[6] Gerald Posner, Case Closed, at 171.
[8] Armstrong 608-609.
[9] FBI Airtel from SAC, Houston, to Director FBI, 1/22/64.
[10] FBI Report of SA Edwin Dalrymple, 2/20/64.
[11] Posner at 172; Armstrong at 609.
[13] Armstrong at 616.
[14] Posner at 173.
[15] Armstrong at 621.
[16] Id.
[17] Warren Report at 730.
[18] Armstrong at 615.
[20] CE 2121
[21] Id.
[22] CE 126.
[23] Rogers Ex No 1.
[24] Armstrong at 627.
[25] Id. at 626.
[27] Id.
[28] Cunningham Exhibit 3, Vol 19, p 403.
[29] Memo from Albert Jenner to Howard P Willens, 6/15/64.
[30] Gladys Johnson Warren Commission Testimony - https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh10/pdf/WH10_GladysJohnson.pdf
[31] https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol10/pdf/HSCA_Vol10_AC_2_Odio.pdf at 23.
[32] https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol10/pdf/HSCA_Vol10_AC_2_Odio.pdf at 24.
[33] https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol10/pdf/HSCA_Vol10_AC_2_Odio.pdf at 24.
[34] https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol10/pdf/HSCA_Vol10_AC_2_Odio.pdf at 19.
[35] https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol10/pdf/HSCA_Vol10_AC_2_Odio.pdf at 19-20.
[36] https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol10/pdf/HSCA_Vol10_AC_2_Odio.pdf at 19.
[38] https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol10/pdf/HSCA_Vol10_AC_2_Odio.pdf at 19.
[39] https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol10/pdf/HSCA_Vol10_AC_2_Odio.pdf at 19.
[40] https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh20/pdf/WH20_Odio_Ex_1.pdf; This letter responding to his daughter’s letter was in December of 1963 – after the assassination. But, in that letter, Odio acknowledged that he had received Silvia’s letter on October 3rd, which corroborates her story about the men visiting.
[41] Warren Report at 324.
[42] Armstrong at 624.
[43] Id. at 625.
[44] https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol10/pdf/HSCA_Vol10_AC_2_Odio.pdf at 24.
[45] https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol10/pdf/HSCA_Vol10_AC_2_Odio.pdf at 24.
[46] 11H 381.
[47] Warren Report at 324; https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol10/pdf/HSCA_Vol10_AC_2_Odio.pdf at 20.
[48] https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol10/pdf/HSCA_Vol10_AC_2_Odio.pdf at 21.
[49] Id.
[50] https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol10/pdf/HSCA_Vol10_AC_2_Odio.pdf at 21.
[51] https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol10/pdf/HSCA_Vol10_AC_2_Odio.pdf at 23.
[52] Not only did the Commission not believe Odio’s story. It apparently tried to actively sabotage her. After Wesley Liebler took Odio’s deposition in Dallas, he invited her out to dinner with him. During the dinner, he threatened her with a polygraph test. He also told her QUOTE “If we do find this is a conspiracy, you know we have orders from Chief Justice Warren to cover this up?” Liebler then invited Odio to his room and, according to her, made sexual advances. He told her the Commission had been joking about how pretty she was. HSCA attorney Bill Triplet told author James DiEugenio that Earl Warren didn’t believe Silvia Odio because he thought she was a loose woman. Was Liebler trying to advance that angle with his post-interview antics with Odio? See DiEugenio, Destiny Betrayed at Chapter 16.
Hi, I just discovered this Podcast. It's great! Thanks for doing it. I do have a question about the missing employment record. I followed the footnote and went to volume 19 and looked at the Cunningham records, it is unclear based upon that information that anything is missing. How can you be certain that information was removed?